[Update 3: So after careful consideration and thought I have decided not to activate the forum for this website. I have thought over the mistakes, problems, and issues that I have seen in previous discussion boards dealing with height increase and I think that if I allowed the forum to be activated, the discussion forum will inevitably end up in the same state. I can not dedicate that amount of time and energy to such a small section of the site. The sections will still be around but there will be a VERY CLEAR SIGN that says that the forum is NOT activated. Maybe some time long down the road when the website is more stable and has a larger community, and I can find good help, I’ll turn the forum on for use.]

[Update 2: I was just informed earlier today from a message on here and on the website email by my collaborator on this project Nicki that the GrowTaller forum/board was shut down. The cause has something to do with drama, politics, and it resulted in many account members being upset with the people who were running the place. Overall, it seems to suggest that the idea of having a forum/board may not be a very good idea. I have figured how to allow other people on the website to edit and post stuff now but I am hesitant to activate the feature since it would both change the graphical layout of the website and also lead to more message board human caused issues.]

[Update: I have decided to add the feature of a forum to this website. However since I am using the bbPress Plugin I seem to be the only person who can actually go in and edit things and post. It will take me a while before I can figure out how to turn that section into a real community discussion board and have other people stop by, login, and communicate with each other.]

So My application to join the GrowTaller forum or board was denied. I got a short and curt message in my inbox. I personally have never been ever denied in terms of application to ever join a board or forum before. This is a first for me.

I now know of maybe 7+ forums or boards on the internet that talks and deals with height increase (at least the ones in english, I would assume there are boards found in other languages). They are…

1. Impartial Height Increase Message Boards – Almost no activity on there anymore.

2. Giant Scientific – This website is still one of the most vast and intensive. The activity has dropped a lot since 2006.

3. GrowTallerForums.com – This seems to be where Hakker was a member

4. Make Me Taller – This website is focused mostly on using limb lengthening techniques and strategies to increase height.

5. GrowTaller – Where I got denied of an account.

6. LSJL forum – I posted 2 posts, one for the $10,000 challenge and another one which I don’t remember.

7. Maybe 3-4 other height increase forums and boards who used the old Forum54 platform, all of them also very dead of activity. I found out about these boards from the Short Support Website webpage link HERE.

So in my effort to join these boards, I have not really been successful. My application to get an account on Giant Scientific I either never got a message or I don’t remember that the email was sent but I do think (not sure since my memory is fuzzy on this one) I never posted anything on there. I don’t think I applied to get into Make Me Taller because the people on there are really xenophobic of outsiders and don’t want to believe that anything else besides limb lengthening is possible. They are not that accepting of alternative ideas. The Impartial Height Increase Message Board and the other boards on #7 have almost no activity so I never tried to join them. I think I tried to apply for a account on the GrowTallerForum but I never got a reply back on my application. There is a LSJL forum which I applied and got a membership in. That one was the only one that actually worked. And earlier today I get a message saying my account application for GrowTaller was denied. That makes it one application success out of 4. However this is the first time I ever got an email back stated blatantly that my application was rejected. Most forums and boards that have not accepted me before just never bothered to give a reply or message. I always just assumed that the admins and moderators chose never to hit the accept button or chose to ignore the email messages.

So this height increase forum or board is completely new to me and I didn’t even know it existed until my collaborator for the website told me that they and another frequent reader (and poster) of this website that they frequented this boards. Apparently this is where the person who goes by the username Alkoclar (spl?) is found and has been talking about a type of compound or “stuff” that can supposedly reverse the growth plate cartilage ossification process.

One thing I did learn and takeaway is that the GrowTaller Board is built on a platform called ProBoards. The link for the ProBoards website is right HERE. On the front page is a claim that says that using ProBoards I can create and build my own forum for FREE and that it takes less than 1 minute. I kind of sounds a attractive to me. However, I know and have been on many internet message boards and forums to know that sometimes these forums can build up and turn into place where there is A LOT OF DRAMA. People on them can private message (PM) the moderators and ask them to ban or suspend other people and stuff and drama just gets out of control. I am really hesitant about this idea first because the main panel on the website is already filled up with sections like “downloads” and “endocrinology”. I guess I could choose just to push the sections “orthopaedics” and “endocrinology” together under one main panel section header and leave the “gene database” by itself and create a section for a “forum” section to resolve the issue with website aesthetics. However, I also realize that moderating and dealing with a forum requires a lot of dedication, time, commitment, and stuff to do like forum maintenance, and operating resources.

If I get enough feedback from the other people/ readers of this website and the overall decision is a positive one, I’ll either try to get a forum to operate as a section of the main website or just put a link that is separate but with the same name in terms of association like “Natural Height Growth Boards” or something. However I would want at least a dozen responses from a dozen different regular website visitors for this post. I also don’t want to a start another internet forum only to have no one going to it and hearing the sound of crickets.

So my last question is “Should I create a forum for this website?”

Just check out the email I got from them below. I snipped it using the Mac OS6 hotkey Shift+Command+4.

Heel Lift Height Increase Silicone Shoe Insole 7 Pads

From from Ebay link HERE…

I remember seeing these height increase silicone shoe insoles on Ebay and I wanted to share it with the readers. From just an initial look at the insoles, I would say that this shoewear is a horrible product. The claim is that the stacked insole has 7 layers, which all combine together to give a person a 2.75 inch increase (or 7 cm). You also have the nice option of removing and adding the insoles depending on how high and tall you want the extra height.

Here is my problem with it. Obviously anyone who buys this product wants to look taller, and be discrete about it. They would want to be as much taller as possible so they would want to use all 7 layers. However, there are very few shoes in the world which has enough space to fit the entire 7 layers, which would probably take up 50% of all the space inside any shoe. If you put all 7 layers in, there is no room left for ones’s foot.

If you look at most sneakers, boots, or dress shoes, the level where the feet’s heel touch and were the surrounding material covers is only around 2-3 inches high. This insole would push the level of where the heel of the feet would go past even that surrounding material. There is not where the feet can go. In addition, even if you did buy larger sized shoes, with taller surrounding material, you can see that the insole is pushed up to a really slanted angle at almost a 45 angle. I don’t know any human feet that is structured to be able to fit comfortably in a shoe with this type of insole inside. The back heel bone (calcanus) would have to be grinded to half of it’s volume at a plane angle to get the feet to slide into the shoes. Of course then the hassle and difficulties would be too much for just a silicone insole.

So the 3 major problems are…

1. The 7 layer insole would take up so much room inside the shoes that the feet would not be able to go in or fit.

2. The 7 layer insole would be so high that it would be so close or even higher than the surrounding erect shoe material that one can not hold the feet in place without sliding out.

3. The 7 layer insole is designed so that it is at a steep angle. There is no human feet structured that can fit in a shoe with this type of insole inside since the back bone is protruding outwards and downwards.

To solve the three problems, one would have to obviously remove at least 4 of the insoles so that the feet can fit relatively comfortably and easily into the shoes. If that is the case, then why would anyone want to buy 7 layers in the first place when it would make the most practical sense to sell what would actually work, which is probably 3-4 layers.  

Me: I have just become aware very recently that there is at least one company where you might be able to order and get chondrogenesis raw materials which is Invitrogen. They seem to sell pretty much everything that I would want to get if I had a real laboratory to work with to test different types of growth factors to see how they would affect limb growth and limb fractures. There are stem cells, progenitors cells, osteocyte/chondrocyte differentiation mediums, and a lot of other stuff. The stuff is not allowed for personal use of course but in maybe a few years we could be able to get them for human use if we can prove in the lab in its efficacy.

Let’s see what some of the products you can find are…

For the StemPRO Chondrogenesis Differentiation Kit, you can click HERE to get to  product catalog PDF for the company Invitrogen. This also includes the STEMPRO® MSC SFM or MesenPRO RSTM Medium

This is just my own personal opinion but if we should ever come up with a real method and technique to possibly increase long bone length we should have it be first tested on animals. This is always assuming that the method is invasive in any way. If it was non invasive we can all try out ideas in our own homes with store bought products.

I propose that at some point we should get into contact certain groups of medical researchers and scientists to perform our proposed method and get it written up in a real scientific journal and paper so that our cause and endeavor is taken seriously by the scientific and medical community. There is no way for us to make our cause to be heard unless we go through some red tape and beaurocracy. If we can raise a certain amount of funding, help pay for at least 1 round of researching, and get a team of university professors to test out our hypothesis, and validate it beyond statistical testing error then I believe it would be possible to really get recognition for what we are doing.

Professors throughout the world spend more than 10% of their professional lives writing up proposals for grants to get money and funding from government and corporate organizations for their interests and research. I should know since I have worked with graduate student and have done biotech and biomedical research before. The major corporations and companies like Genentech and Biogen have the equipment and resources and they also are trying to push the edge of biological science but they won’t be wiling to put their resources for a cause which is more likely to be a failure and a bad investment into this.

Me: I have recently found out about this product being sold called NeoCart, an autologous cartilage tissue implant, which seems to be using the technology of cartilage regrowth for eventual surgical implantation to heal fractures. What is nice about this product is that one can just buy it. To make the NeoCart product it is “produced by seeding a type-I collagen matrix scaffold with autogenous chondrocytes and bioreactor treatment“. The implications of this product and technology is that we can see that there are already places where we can buy these cartilage implants or get their services. What might be good is if we can figure out what type of growth factors were used in the bioreactor treatment along with the implanted chondrocytes. This might give us a bigger clue on how to cause induced or injected chondrocytes into bones to increase and create a cartilage layer. 

From Histogenics website HERE…

This will be another one of those fun posts which I have always wanted to write about but never could find a platform or place to write about such a topic. Today’s post is on the real height of ex-NBA star Yao Ming. Since I have been a basketball fan, I have followed the career of this Chinese Giant to see whether a person of his size would do well in professional sports. I know that he played for the Houston Rockets for his entire NBA career after being the #1 pick from the 2002 NBA Draft. When he first arrived in the US and NBA, many people did not know what to expect from this man from a foreign nation.

Now a decade later with Yao Ming retiring, the NBA has found a huge new market to go into for its newer generation of stars, China. Every month I am hearing about how basketball stars like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, and Kobe Byrant have been coming to China to host intercultural exchange using the sport of basketball. China is getting richer and some of the best business opportunities can be found there. The people in China are also crazy about the sport from watching super human giants jump into the air and nearly fly. I remember in the 90s with the reign of Michael Jordan that the advent of the internet had not come along yet and his popularity was just starting to reach the other nations. However, the basketball players of today have found the ability to reach kids from all the countries in the world that his airness probably would not have thoughht was even possible. I am almost positive that in another 10 years, the sport of basketball will try to sink its teeth into India, Africa, Indonesia, and many other nations around the world with a large population base.

However let’s get back to seeing how tall Yao Ming really is. Some sources say he is 7’5″ but other sources say he is 7′ 6″. In SI units that means he ranges from 2.26-2.285 meters in height, at about a 2.50 cm difference. When it comes to true human giants like Yao, there heights are a real mystery for most people. It is near impossible for a person who is even 1 feet shorter than them to guess their height correctly to within 2 inches. Since we are talking about a 1 inch difference, there is no way that most other people can judge his height accurately. A person of his height can vary very quickly in weight so I will just choose the value that is found from the official NBA website which is at 310 lb (or 140.6 kg).

Other useful information about Yao from imdb.com…

His father, Yao Zhiyuan, is 6′ 7″; his mother, Fengdi Fang, is 6′ 3″ and was captain of the Chinese national women’s basketball team.

According to the Houston Rockets strength and conditioning coach, Anthony Falsone, he is still growing. Falsone says Yao was 7′ 5″ tall without shoes on (7′ 6 1/2″ with shoes) in October of 2002, but that by September of 2004, he had grown to 7′ 5 3/4″ in height barefoot, and to 7′ 7 1/4″ in height with shoes on.

At the 2004 Summer Olympic Games in Athens, Greece, he was listed as having a 7′ 5″ wingspan, a 9′ 8″ standing reach, and a size 18 shoe US.

His team media guide profile in China, stated that Yao had a 26 inch vertical leap, jumping from a standstill. However, Yao himself has said since then that two foot injuries he suffered since that time, lowered his vertical leap after this by about 4 to 6 inches.

First these are the sources that say Yao Ming is 7′ 5″ in height (2.2606 meters)

1. imdb.com  – he is actually listed at 7′ 5.5″ or 2.27 meters tall here. from the imdb link this quote is taken “According to the Houston Rockets strength and conditioning coach, Anthony Falsone, he is still growing. Falsone says Yao was 7′ 5″ tall without shoes on (7′ 6 1/2″ with shoes) in October of 2002, but that by September of 2004, he had grown to 7′ 5 3/4″ in height barefoot, and to 7′ 7 1/4″ in height with shoes on.”

Me: The issue for me was that Yao came into the NBA league when he was 22, at least that was the age the Chinese government listed him as, and being able to still grow another 1 inch when one is at age 22-23 is really incredible. But then, this is a giant man with height in his genes and family so maybe he did grow.

2. Urban Dictionary – just for humor

3. CelebHeights.com – quote from site: Either gets listed at 7ft 5 or 6. Shawn Bradley, another giant of the court has been quoted as saying: “He’s not as tall as me. If he’s 7-6, I’m 7-8”. Yao has stated “I’m 7-6” before.

4. NBA Chicago Bulls Predraft Measurements – listed at 7’5″ without shoes and 7′ 6.25″ with shoes with 7′ 4.75″ wingspan.

5. USBasket.com

6. TheTallestMan.com

Next, these are the sources that say Yao Ming is 7′ 6″ in height (2.286 meters)

1. Wikipedia

2. NBA.com

3. Basketball-Reference.com

4. Yahoo! Sports

5. imdb.com – quote from the profile page: At a height of 7′ 6″, he is tied with Shawn Bradley, for the distinction of being the tallest player in the NBA.

6. HeightCeleb.info

7. TheTallestMan.com – Yao is compared to people like Hakeem Olajuwon, Michael Jordan, and Dikembe Mutombo and half of the people says he is 7′ 6″.

If you would like to do something fun, you can follow his twitter feeds HERE which is his real twitter profile.

Here is a picture I found of Yao from the 2008 Olympics Chinese Basketball Team (source HERE).

What I see is one of the most clear examples of Yao being at least 7′ 5″. To Yao’s right and left stands Yi Jianlian and Wang Zhizhi. While Yi Jianlian has been listed at 7’0″ in the NBA directory (HERE) his predraft measurements (HERE) show that he is actually 6′ 11″ without shoes, 7′ 0.25″ with shoes, and has a 7′ 3.5″ wingspan. On the site Asia Basketball (HERE) Yi has been listed at 2.12 meters tall which seems very reasonable since in the picture he looks almost the same height at Wang Zhizhi if not just slightly shorter.

With Wang Zhizhi he has been listed at 7′ 1″ (2.16 m) in the NBA when he first was introduced to the US but in more recent year his height is labeled at 7′ 0.25″ or 2.14 meters which seems very reasonable (Wikipedia). Other sources (HERE) list him as just 7′ 0″. Asia Basketball lists him at 2.15 meters (HERE).

With most people’s head, the tip of the top of their head to the middle level of their eye level is around 4-5 inches. For people with larger heads or larger foreheads like Yao, the top of his height to the middle of his eye level is probably 5 inches if not more. We can see that both Yi and Wang has their head below the eye level of Yao’s and probably about 1 inch  below the center of Yao’s eye level. This would definitely put Yao at the 7′ 6″ range which many basketball analyst have said about him.

As for Shawn Bradley, the ex-NBA player who has been most compared to Yao in height, Bradley was once measured on 60 minutes by Andy Rooney to have been actually 7′ 6.25″ with a rather error prone measuring tape. In most pictures of the two, Shawn does look slightly taller than Yao but maybe only by 0.25-0.5 inches at most. In the picture on the right shawn does look maybe 1 cm taller than Yao. You can clearly see the floor and their overall sneakers look about the same giving the same amount of shoe height. Their postures are about the same. They are standing relatively straight up with their back almost against each other. What is clear is that Bradley’s eye level is probably 1 inch higher than Yao’s but Yao does have a wider and thicker head than Shawn.

Now here is a picture of Yao with Dikembe Mutombo (source HERE) who has been listed at 7′ 2″ in his NBA career although some people have said that Dikembe was measured at 7′ 1.25″ without shoes when he first came into the League. No matter how I change the angles, Yao still looks at least 4.5-5 inches taller than Mutombo if not more. I am willing to admit that Dikembe is stnding slightly further away from the camera and his feet is at a larger angle.

From photo bucket (source HERE)we see on the right of Yao compared to Shaq who we have almost concluded is the 7′ 1″ height he has always claimed. From this picture we can see that Yao’s eye level is right where Shaq’s head top is. Yao’s head it slightly crooked with his neck twisting around but we can say that Yao is at least 4.5 inches taller than shaq.

From all these pictures I am going to make a final conclusion on Yao’s height. Some of the more reliable resources have always said that Yao is 7′ 5″ but the sources from the US and NBA sources say he is 7′ 6″. From my experience, I know that the NBA often pads the height of its players by at least 1 inch to make themselves look bigger. Players who were listed at 6′ 8″ goes up to 6′ 9″. What is very noticeable is that most of the player who are extremely tall like Shaq and Yao, they don’t lie or exaggerate their height since they are already tall enough. With Yao, I would say that he is probably 7′ 5.5″-7′ 5.75″ inches at the end of the night after the spinal disks have compressed. When Yao gets out of the bed in his morning, height I would guess he could be 7′ 6.25″-7.6.5″ in height. I know that for myself, my height ranges from 6’0″ when I get out of bed to 5′ 11.25″ (or even slightly lower) when I go to bed. With Yao and his body, his height should be very more varied. Since his height fluctuates so much and does probably dip down to even 7′ 5.5″ (but no lower) during the day, that was probably when the doctors made their measurements. When he was measured in the morning, he was taller. If we combine all the height variation, I would guess that Yao can be considered 7′ 6″ or just slightly less at 7′ 5.75″ than that overall since I am quite positive that he does go over the 7’6″ height limit for at least the early part of the day after waking up. That is why we can and most people do claim that Yao is 7′ 6″ tall.