I was asked this question years ago by a friend when I tried to explain to them the extensive number of benefits to having height as an advantage in life. Ever since then I have asked myself that question maybe once every year and I have found that my answer has evolved as I become more educated on how people behave and economics.

What most people do when they are asked this type of question is to avoid giving a definite answer, often because they are afraid of being politically incorrect and offending someone else. So the most common answer is not some number they pull out of their head but a ,” Well, it depends…” or “How do you define the word “ideal”?” or “Are we talking men in only the US or across the world in general?”

One thing that life has definitely taught me is that when one tries to give a definite exact solution to any question, one has to consider all the possible situations. For any questions that become even slightly theoretical or metaphysical, the answer is almost always impossible to answer with a definite solution.

Life Lesson: Hard questions can never be answered to a satisfactory level for everyone who wants an answer. 

To answer this type of question which does involve subjective biases and preferences, one realizes that the answer may only satisfy 55% of everyone who reads such a post.  However, I am trying to gain the agreement of the majority of the readers beliefs and biases.

Let’s first set up some constraints and parameters so we can focus the answer down to only a few possible answers.

1. We are only talking about men for now

2. We are only talking about people from the USA, including say Alaska and Hawaii. It has been shown from previous posts that the height averages for different countries vary too greatly in a huge range.

3. Let’s assume we are talking about the white caucasian american. (I do realize that it is a race label)

4. We understand that the ideal height is different for different people, so we will actually have 2 different ideal heights.

Humans are social creatures so when we are talking about “ideal” height” we are really talking about the preference and opinion of other people. That means that whatever one’s own opinion of one’s height is removed from the equation. We are only talking about how other people view one’s height. How do they look at you based on your height ,assuming everything else in your life is the same?

When we are talking about the fact that different people have different opinions on their optimum height FOR YOU, their answers will be varied.

For men, the issue of height really has 2 primary social/interpersonal relationship functions, one for women and the other is for other men.

Function # 1: To gain the admiration, desire, and attraction from women

Function # 2: To gain the respect and awe (and maybe even jealousy) from other men

That is why I felt that there should be two different ideal heights, one for women for function #1, another for men for function #2.

Let’s look at function #2 first. When you are a male and you meet and confront another male, at some unconscious instinctual level, you are sizing them up. The easiest way to size up another man is through their size. Size is used to showcase domination, fitness, strength, and physical prowess. If you are taller than the other people, your eye level is above theirs and you can literally “look down on them”.

However, the subject is not as simple as being taller is always better. At some critical point, the emotion of awe and respect other men might give you might turn into ridicule and sympathy if you are too out of societies constructed social rules.

The late author Michael Chrichton who was 6’9″-6’10” himself had stated that the optimum height for men in the US  was 6′ 6″. Here is a Harvard Medical School trained doctor who has been a best selling writer multiple times over stating such a claim. Thinking from a completely pragmatic point of view that does make a lot of sense. The average height of normal wall in american houses is 6′ 8″. One’s hair might add 0.5-1 inch to the height. If we then add the fact that most shoes add around 1-1.5 inches to ones height, we realize that 6′ 6″ is the upp er limit in height that one can be without any hindrances that can develop because of how buildings are created.

There are some small cars that are being developed these days that maybe a guy who is 6′ 6″ can not fit into, but the large trucks that are still sold can still house a man of that size quite comfortably. In terms of shoe sizes, there are many stores that sell pants and shirts with larger inseams and shirts these days. When one asks other grown men  who are the most popular and most admired strong American males (let along from the African American community) , the names Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant appear often and they are both 6′ 6″.

These days it is actually really hard to find great male role models. A lot of young guys these days don’t have male heros they can look up to. In sports, the athlete that has come close to achieving immortality in the last generation was probably Michael Jordan. Sure there are the people who admire Bruce Less but for some people, it is really hard to relate to him because he had the foreign element about him. Plus, even though Bruce was strong and ripped like crazy, he was reported at 5′ 7.5″ feet tall, which was very averaged sized for an asian guy from his era. If you walked by him on the street , you wouldn’t know that he was someone special. He however learned how to overcompensate for his limitations of being asian and average sized to become a legend. However, that legend happend only after his death. There are other types of heros like Gandhi, Einstein, and Steve Jobs but they were never of the size that could instantly bring forth respect and awe form men just from their physical presence.

So the first guess for the ideal height of men FOR men is 6′ 6″. At that height, from other men you command respect and illicit awe while not pushed to a level where you are viewed as some form of anomaly.

Now let’s look at what the ideal height is for function #1. If we go to any internet discussion board that asks women what is their ideal height for men, many of them say that the taller, the better. (Reference Link 1)

Of course it is important to understand what a person says and what they actually do are 2 different things. It is reasonable to say that a 5′ 2″ female would like in theory and her mind to date a guy who is 6′ 8″ since he give her some form of mental security but in actually that could be very mechanically difficult. I am imagining a lot of awkward head tilting, neck straining, and uncomfortable positions…but that is just me.

Recent scientists concluded that women prefer on average to have their ideal male mate be 11% longer in height to their own height. So a girl who is 5′ 6″ would on average like a guy who is slightly longer than 6′ 1″. (5′ 6″ = 66 inches –> 66* (1.11) = 73.26 inches)

From the Wikipedia article on human height found HERE we learned from from 2003-2006, the average height for adult white male is 1.79 meters or 5′ 10.5″. I used to live close to Idaho and traveled a few times through the Mid West area where many towns are still primarily caucasian and I can tell you through just my own experience that the number provided by wikipedia is rather small, especially for the younger generation of guys.

However, let’s assume that number is correct. so from a SI unites pont of view, the average height is ~ 1.80 meters. Now, girls in general want the taller guy. They want a guy who is better than average, say by 1-2 standard deviations. I would assume no one chooses intentionally to “settle” for someone who is less in any way than the average. The US usually refers to the smaller length unit as inches, not centimeters. So if a women was to give a minimum height requirement, they would usually say 6′ 0″, which is 1.83 meters in SI units.

However, there are so many caucasian american guys who are  6 foot so they are not really “tall”. It is true that we can continue to add another inch and see if the american female’s opinion of the guy changes. 6′ 1″? still considered average, but getting cuter. 6′ 2″? Maybe 40-50 years ago that was the golden standard that people wanted to reach, but people have grown taller since then. 6′ 3″? Now we can reaching a level where a guy can be classified as “tall”. There was some study done from data collection that showed that only 3% of all people in the US was 6′ 3″ or taller so if you are at that hieght, you are in an elite group of individuals. Of course, that  study had combined the numbers of males and females so the real percentage was probably 6% of all men was 6′ 3″ or taller, which is still a nice elite group one can be in.

For many girls, 6′ 3″ could be considered the ideal height, but let’s continue to add th inches. 6′ 4″? There seems to be quite a few athletes these days at the height getting a lot fo exposure like Michael Phelps and Dwayne Wade. However, we must also remember that most women don’t focus on sports that much. Movies and TV is still a very popular way people absorb the media. If we look at the most famous male actors which are considered attractive like Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Or Chase Crawford, or Channing Tatum , none of them are on the “tall” side. They are either average height or slightly below average. Thus, we can conclude that the admiration, desire, and attraction we want from women can be developed without the need for great height. Women care more about how you make them feel and the emotions more than anything. Maybe it used to be that the ideal male was the larger than life, rugged, tough men from decades before but women this days prefer a more real life sized man. Some women do choose not to date really tall men because they look strange.  Many women have called 7′ 6″ Yao Ming scary because he looks like and is the size of Frankenstein’s monster. However, that doesn’t mean that they have shut off that primitive part of their brain to desire tall men. So what is the standard deviation from average do they really desire in their men?

So the real question is, where is that height that balances size and looks?

I conclude that the ideal height is 6′ 3″, maybe slightly taller at 1.91 meters in SI units. If you look at a lot of the lead actors in action movies these days, they can often be classified into two groups by height. They are either the average sized joe who is agile and smooth. Think Daniel Craig in James Bond (5′ 10″), Matt Damon or Jeremey Renner in the Bourne Series (both 5′ 10″), Robert Downey Jr. (5′ 9″), and Colin Farell from Total Recall (5′ 10″). Then you have the larger sized male leads who are taller , broader, but not as agile or quick. Think Josh Duhamel in Transformers series (6′ 3.5″), Dwayne Johnson (6′ 3.5″), Gerard Butler (6′ 2″), Brandon Routh from Superman (6′ 3″), or Chris Hemsworth, the guy who played the lead in Thor (6′ 3.5″).

So my point is that the Hollywood movies these days have officially separated the male leads in say action movies into groups based on size. You can have either the average sized actor playing the lead like Brad Pitt (5′ 11″) or the slightly larger actor playing the lead like Ryan Reynolds (6′ 2″). These images have reached the subconscious of the average american female and when they say that they want the “tall guy” to date, they are reaching back into their memory of the movies they’ve seen and choose the guy who is 6′ 3″.

And that is my proposed guess on what the ideal height for the American women is , 6′ 3″ (1.91 meters)

A while back ago I had written an article asking the question “How many 8 feet tall people are in the world?” Turns out the answer was 3 currently at this time who are alive. There is another person who could be the 4th but there is sort of a controversy over that issue so me and few other height enthusiasts decided to leave it as it is for now.

I guess it was only appropriate and a matter of time before I wrote and tried to answer this question. So….

“How many 7 feet tall people are in the world?”

Of all the people in the world, I personally really believe that I am one of less than 100 people in the world who know as much about height and height growth who could possibly answer this question

The only other person who can possibly answer this question is someone who does actually has studied Auxology which is the official scientific name for the study of human growth.

Here is my answer

I am going to use a combination of mathematics, statistical reasoning, real life situations and personal observations, hours and years poring over height related literature, and some “hand waving guesstimation”.

This is what I do know. I have lived in a variety of countries in my life with some of the biggest variability in the size of the resident’s bodies. I have lived in super crowded cities over 20 million people and have lived alone close to the woods in the middle of nowhere.

In each of our brain, there is a part in the back of our brain called the R.A.S. , the reticular activating system which is always subconsciously looking for what we choose to consciously seek after. Some people prefer to focus on people’s eyes so when they walk by a lot of people, they only notice and can describe people’s eyes from memory. Other people look at the ground and are fixated on a passerby’s shoes. That is what they choose to focus on.

We get what we choose to focus on. Well, I focus on height. When I walk past a huge group of people, I look for people who are either abnormally tall or abnormally short. They are the people I notice the most. Of course, they are also the most easily noticeable.

I used to live in Seattle, WA. In the last census taken in 2011, it was reported that Washington State has about 6.8 Million people. Hell, most people don’t even answer the census that comes in their mail anymore (If you do, you are better than me since I always forget). So we could say that the real population of the state of Washington could be maybe 10-20% bigger than the census reports. Instead, we should be collecting the numbers by the number of social security numbers given out and the number of people who arrive in the US with a passport and never had a ticket to leave the country.

Next, we have to take into account for people who are in the state illegally. If we assume the influx of illegal immigrants, we can increase that to say another 3% , assuming that 1 out of 30 people in the state is there illegally. However, we have to remember that probably the majority of the illegal immigrant are from down South, from Mexico or other Central America countries. Sure, there might still be human trafficking through say a ship or cargo loader from the sea. but those numbers should be a lot smaller than the people who just walk past the border. I would assume that not many Canadians try to flee down south through the border into the US.

What I am trying to do with the first part of my arguement is get the most accurate guess of the real population of the state of Washington as possible. So my guess is that instead of the 6.8 million reported by the census, the number is probably more like 8 Million, which is around a 15-18% increase.

From my daily walking and people watching this is what I have figured out. When I was living in the USA, in Seattle which has a population of only 500,000 I would see a 7 footer or someone very close to 7 foot maybe once every 1.5-2.5 months. I have never seen a 7 footer and saw them again. In the last year, I have seen maybe 4-5, one every 2.5-3.5 months but this year was very unique because the rate that I see them is a lot higher than previous years. Of course if I go on more large gathering places like a fair or concert, I would see a lot more.  The city of Seattle has around 620,000 people.

I would say that I personally have seen maybe 10-15 people who are 7 foot tall or taller in my life. This is the part where I have to guess. Since I saw those 4-5 7 footers in Seattle in the last year, I would guess that there is maybe 1 7 footer for every 300,000 people in the state of Washington. that comes out to be about 27 7 footers in the state of WA. Now that does sound a little high but I would assume that WA is one of those states that height is higher than average of other states. If we than use that 1/300,000 people rule that comes out to be about 1030 7 footers in the USA.

Since there is about 7.1 billion people in the world, we could just divide 7.1 billion by 300,000 to get 23,600 7 footers.

Now that number is too high. I admit that my first calculation seems to be off, maybe even by 1 entire magnitude.  The main reason is because most of the world is NOT tall, say really around 1.65 meters tall averaging out both men (5’8″) and women (5’3″). The average is smaller so the number the total world population has to divide by should be bigger.

We also have to take into consideration the fact that certain groups of people seem to be genetically bigger than others. In the last post, I had shown that there was 16 7 footers from Serbia at least from the Tier 1 level of professional basketball male players. Serbia has a population of around 7.2 million people . I would guess that the real number of 7 footers in Serbia is probably 40, or 1 7 footer for every 200,000 people.

If we compare that to say Vietnam, the ratios would be completely different. Vietnam has a population of almost 90 million. Guys who are 1.8 meters and girls who are 1.7 meters tall are considered tall there. For a native Vietnamese to get to be 1.9 meters is incredible, but our standard and desire is to move that cut off point by 2 more decimeters, which could be 3-4 more standard deviations away from the already deviated average. to more than 2.1 meters. 7 feet is 2.13 meters.

I would guess  that in the country, there is probably 5-6 people over 7 feet. So 1 7 footer out of every 15-20 million people, taking into account and including people who might be suffering from gigantism and acrogemaly. This is all assuming that there is are probably a few 7 footers hidden from public or the media for fear of publicly exposed. People do treat people of extraordinary height in a way that make them feel like a sideshow or displayed animal sometimes.

This is the best number I could come up with for the number of 7 footers in the world. Multiply the the total world population by a number that is about 30% larger by 1 less mangitude in value compared to the ratio value used in the US calculation which is 1/2,300,000 to give around 3090 7 footers in the world. 

so V2= (V1/10)*(1.30)

So the final calculated answering using pure reasoning is that there is about 2800 7 footers in the world currently, including for unknown ones, giants who have avoided the media out of privacy and fear reasons, and those that might be inflicted with medical conditions causing their large size.

As a followup to the previous post, I wanted to figure out which ethnic group is the tallest in the world. Again, we go back to the initial resource link we had used before on wiseGEEK found HERE

Of course to be able to answer that question, we have to define what is exactly an “ethnic group” and what is the difference between the words and terms ethnic group and ethnicity and race and nationality.

Let’s explain all the terms from easiest to hardest.

1. Nationality – Nationality refers to the geo-political land mass you are associated with by political and military treaties derived terms from rules and regulations. Where you hold your citizenship is what your nationality is. Usually, the country of your passport is the country of your nationality (although not always, exceptions can be expats, asylum seekers, spies ie. 007 James Bond). If you have dual citizenship, like being both Canadian and American, you have dual nationality.

This means that if you are chinese and you were born by chinese parents in China but you moved to the USA and became an american citizenship through naturalization, your nationality is American or USA.

Note: By coincidence (or maybe not so much coincidence) we had answered in our previous post HERE the question “What is the tallest nationality?”

2. Race – Race as defined by Wikipedia found HERE is “”a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by heritable phenotypic characteristics, geographic ancestry, physical appearance, ethnicity, and social status. In the early twentieth century the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype.””

Apparently, the word “race” was originally used to refer to any nations or ethnic groups. From Wikipedia, “”In the 18th century, the differences among human groups became a focus of scientific investigation…The 1775 treatise “The Natural Varieties of Mankind,” by Johann Friedrich Blumenbach proposed five major divisions: the Caucasoid race, Mongoloid race,Ethiopian race (later termed the Negroid race), American Indian race, and Malayan race, but he did not propose any hierarchy among the races. Blumenbach also noted the graded transition in appearances from one group to adjacent groups and suggested that “one variety of mankind does so sensibly pass into the other, that you cannot mark out the limits between them”.

In addition, “”In the last two decades of the 18th century polygenism, the belief that different races had evolved separately in each continent and shared no common ancestor, was advocated in England by historian Edward Long and anatomist Charles White.””

It is without a doubt that because of the idea and creation of race, a lot of struggles and pain an suffering has resulted. Social scientists, anthropologist, and geneticist have all tried to define the term “race” as accurately as possible while most geneticists have pretty much concluded that the idea of race is very hard to find from a biology point of view at least right now. Since the science does not back up the idea of “race”, I have decided to not talk about race since it is a poorly understood or even defined word/ concept. I personally do not believe in the idea of “race” since the concept is too fuzzy and inaccurate that the very definition of the word can be left to interpretation toevery subjective person’s own biases. For me, what can not be easily defined will not be discussed too much.

3. Ethnicity  – That leaves up to only figure out what is the difference between the terms “ethnicity” and “ethnic group” . From this PDF found off the University of Deleware website HERE. the word ethnicity is defined as “”identification with and feeling a part of, an ethnic group and exclusion from certain other groups because of this affiliation. ”

That means that the term “ethnicity does not directly describes physical attributes and characteristics like height. It really is a “feeling”. When the word “identification” is used, that means that it really is talking about a belief system, not a system that implies or directly is related to physical characteristics perse. Thus, the word “ethnicity” does not really imply height generalizations or stereotypes.

For example, if you asked people in both North and South Korea what their ethnicity is, they would say that they are both Korean. However, the average height of the North Koreans is far lower than the average height of the people in South Korea.

In general, the relative group size of the terms “nationality” and “ethnicity” are usually the same. Not so for the term “asian”.

Asia is a continent of 4 billion people. Ethnicity and Nationality refers most often to one’s country of origin or the nation one’s relatives came from. Since the USA is a nation of immigrants, the USA is a big exception to the rule that the group size of “ethnicity” should be the same as for “nationality”. For most people in the world, when you ask them what is their ethnicity or nationality, they give the same answer, like Lithuanian, Polish, Thai, etc. BUt for the US, you ask them their nationality, they will say “American” but when asked about their ethnicity, they might say something like “1/2 english, 1/4th german, 1/8th french, 1/8th Cherokee”

4. Ethnic Group – An Ethnic group is defined as “”shared beliefs, values, habits, customs and norms, and a common language, religion, history, geography, kinship or “race”. The PDF make the important point that ethnic groups are “view and treated as if features are biological”. So now we see that the term “ethnic group” is far better and more accurate at describing and defining a group of people. The size of the group is also the smallest.

An example is that even though most people think that the country of India is mostly homogeneous, it is actually a conglomerate of smaller ethnic groups that combine together to give themselves one label, one word that defines them. There are at least over 40 small ethnic groups that make up the country of India. In general, the term “ethnic group” kind of gives the impression of a tribe, more than a city-state.

So this is why I am trying to use the term “ethnic group” when I ask what is the question “What is the tallest ethnic group in the world?”

Let’s FINALLY get to answering that question now.

I remember going through the over 300 comments below the question and a specific area appeared over and over again where people stated that the height of people was very large.

It was a area that included, croatia, serbia, bosnia/herzegovina, and montenegro. One area that was stated in almost mythical ways was Dalmatia. Personally, I had never even known such a place existed, except the reference to the dog breed type Dalmatians.  Apparently the whole region can combined and referred to as the dinaric alps area.

From this scientific study HERE done in 2005 of the measurement of men from the dinaric alps area, 28% of all males was over 1.90 meters in height. That is insane. If we now consider the fact that the data taken also included say older generations which are probably shorter, we could state that 1 out of every two males in the area is 6′ 3″ or taller. I have heard many stories and references about the height of men from Croatia and Serbia.

Let’s take a look at the circumstantial evidence and try to build a case for our selves.

1. I have met maybe 3 people who I was sure was Croatian. One guy I talked to who was 6′ 1′ told me that he was the shortest guy in his family of 4 brothers. The others, I never asked about their height.

2. 2008 100 meter butterfly in swimming silver medalist Michael Cavic is 6’6″.

3. Retired basketball legend and Bulls Toni Kukoc was 6′ 11″.

4. The tallest tennis player is Ivo Karlovic who stands at 6′ 10″ from Croatia. and Marin Cilic is 6’6″

5. World Cup’s tallest striker – Serbia’s 6ft 7.5 ins forward Nikola Zigic

6. Vanja Iveša – 2.05m – (6ft 8½”) – Croatian goalkeeper playing with Turkcell Super Lig club Eskişehirspor

7. Lazar Jovisić – 2.02m (6ft 7½”) –  21 year old Serbian goalkeeper transferred to CD Nacional in Portugal in 2008.

8. Vanja Ivesa – 2.05 m (6′ 9″) – Croatian goalkeeper

9. Darko Milicic – drafted 2nd in 2003 by NBA after Lebron James – 6’11-7’0″

10. Miladin Kovacevic – accused of assaulting student and tried to flee country – 6′ 10″

11. Vlade Divac – 7′ 1″ – famous NBA former player –

17. Serbia basketball players over 7 feet tall: 1. Nenad Krstic – 7′ 0″, Stephan Lukovic – 7′ 0″, Nemanja Arsic – 7′ 0″, Bogdan Radosaljevic – 7′ 0″, Dejan Musli – 7′ 0″, Nikola Milutinov, Mile Ilić – 7′ 1″, Dusan Ognjenovic – 7’1″, Dragan Tubak – 7′ 2″, Nenad Misanovic – 7′ 2″, Dusan Cantekin (Dusan Gavrilovic) – 7′ 3.4″- 7′ 4″, Boban Marjanovic – 7′ 4″, Samuel Deguara – 7′ 4″, Marko Dujkovic – 7′ 5″, Marko Marcetic – 7′ 5″, Slavko Vranes – 7′ 6.5″

Note: There are Serbian Basketball teams where the average height of the men is 6′ 10″

18. Croatia basketball players over 7 feet tall:  Miro Bilan – 7′ 0″, Mario Kasun – 7′ 0″, Jusuf Nurkic – 7′ 0″, Denis Vrsaljko – 7′ 0″, Domagoj Bubalo – 7′ 0″, Filip Kraljevic – 7’0″,     Ognjen Kuzmić – 7′ 1″, Robert Rikic – 7′ 2″, Nedžad Sinanović – 7′ 3″

15. Bosnia basketball players over 7 feet tall: Nemanja Sladoje – 7′ 0″, Nedžad Sinanovic – 7′ 3″, Dalibor micic – 7′ 4.5″

13. Montenegro basketball players over 7 feet tall: Milos Lopicic – 7′ 1″

14. Slovakia basketball players over 7 feet tall:– Martin Miklosik – 7′ 5.4″

If you look at the list, you would realize that the number of extraordinrarily tall players is incredible. I don’t know which ethnic group at this point has the highest average level height. As of right now, at this point, it is not possible to determine which Ethnic Group really has the highest average height. Even though Serbia has far more 7 footers listed in its basketball program, it could be that the Serbian basketball program is just more developed than the other Nations in the Dinaric Alps area. However, what is clearly noticeable is that there is a disproportionately high number of extremely tall people in that country.

For the populations of the countries we are viewing they are from Wikipedia,

1. Serbia – 7.1 Million from October 2011

2. Croatia – 4.3 Million from March 2011

3. Bosnia & Herzegovina – 3.8 Million from June 2011

4. Montenegro – 0.6 Million from 2011

Note: This article will be edited further later, say in 1 month because I don’t know how to finish the article and reach a conclusive answer

I remembered while working on this site that there was a very unique site named wiseGEEK that I had found years ago that was in a similar format to Yahoo Ask. The reference link to wiseGEEK is found HERE. Someone asks a question and there is a standard answer and the readers can also leave their comments and answers to the question posed.

The question was “Which country has the tallest people?” I think the question was posed maybe 5 years ago (I am not sure about the real time frame, this is just a guess). However, the question has generated up to last count 310 comments.

The standard answer to the question is that the tallest nation is The Netherlands. The average male in the Netherlands was measured at 1.85 meters or slightly less than 6′ 1″ in US units. In 2nd place is Denmark , with the average male Dane being 1.83 m or 6′ 0″ tall. This claim apparently is verified quite strongly by other reports from back in 2007/2008 (Reference Link 1, Reference Link 2, Reference Link 3)

However , the answer is quick to note that “” There are taller people belonging to certain populations within countries. This is especially true of the Maasai people, who live in parts of Tanzania and Kenya. But as a whole, the citizens living in the Netherlands are on average, the tallest people. “” On a side note, the tallest member of the most recent USA swim team Matt Grevers at 6′ 8″ is Dutch.

After officially answering the question, the writer goes a little deeper in trying to figure out why the Dutch are the tallest in the world. They claim that “” the Dutch emphasis on early childhood care, a diet rich in dairy products and thus high in protein, and a fairly even distribution of wealth have contributed to making the Dutch the world’s tallest people. “”

It is also noted that the Netherlands provide for its residents some of the best Healthcare for newborns and children. The most critical stages and phases for grow are in those stage. Smart Dutch.

So basically get your calcium and vitamin D through eating a lot of dairy and getting a lot of protein. The relatively even distribution of wealth I guess means that the people don’t feel too much pressure and stress to compete and struggle to survive, thus the effect of stress reducing height is removed. OK, I am willing to go with that rather “hand waving” science reasoning.

A nice little last point made by the writer is “” Further, the measurement is “average height” which means some people far exceed 6 feet 1 inch. Some people are significantly taller and may stand nearly 7 feet (2.13 m) tall,””. Well DUH, since when any statistician creates bar graph noting all the heights of a large number of people, the distribution will become more and more bell shaped and the line will become smoother as the number of people measured becomes bigger. If that bell curved is than checked at the upper end, we are bound to find a few 7 footers. It’s not like we are measuring from a group of only 1000 people. Of course even from a 1000 people, with a country like the Netherlands we should probably not rule out that a 7 footer would be in there. I personally have not been to the Netherlands but I have heard people claim that the real local natives there (not the recent immigrants say from the middle east or northern africa) are very tall.

What is just as strange was that maybe only 1 year after the first reports came out that the Dutch were the tallest in the world, there was a few reports that showed that the Dutch do seemed to have plateaued in their height too. (Reference Link 1, Reference Link 2). Some researchers have shown that the height increase slowing down could be explained because of the influx of immigrants from shorter countries like the Middle East or South Asia. However, it is noted also that even the immigrants who arrive come to The Netherlands are on average taller than their counterparts back in their native nations.

In the last two posts I made, the focus was on the method of using cosmetic surgery to gain the height increase H.I.S. are looking for. From watching the videos, I understand the desire and intent of the men who decided to go through the surgery. It made me wonder whether they might have been suffering from some form of psychiatric disorder that kept them extremely dissatisfied with their height.

After a while, I realized that the problem is not whether they are suffering from such a condition or not (because they are suffering and dissatisfied), but more on how the psychiatric conditioned will be evaluated to be termed.

In this article HERE written by the “In These Times” blog by Lindsay Beyerstein, she argues that  Dr. Dror Paley’s term to describe his patient’s mental anguish “Height Dysphoria” may be wrongly named. I take this section from her writings.

Dr. Dror Paley, a Florida surgeon who performs cosmetic leg lengthening, claims his patients are suffering from “height dysphoria,” which he characterizes as a psychiatric disorder that can lead to suicide, but which can be cured by surgery.

Clearly, the doctor is eager to reframe this extreme procedure as therapeutic, rather than cosmetic. He’s not breaking people’s legs for vanity’s sake, he assures us, he’s curing a dangerous psychiatric disorder. Ethically, the maximum allowable risk for a cosmetic procedure is much lower than for a procedure that’s treating a potentially life-threatening disease.

The interviewer asks if people who are on the brink of suicide might be better served by counselling rather than surgery. The doctor replies, self-servingly, that counselling just doesn’t work for these people. Their only hope is to go under the knife.

It turns out, “height dysphoria,” (aka “short stature dysphoria”) isn’t a psychiatric term at all. It’s just a pseudo-technical way to say that someone is unhappy with their height. Dissatisfaction with one’s appearance is not an illness. Supposedly, “short stature dysphoria” applies to people who are consistently unhappy about their height, but happy and well-adjusted in other areas of their lives. If someone is on the brink of suicide because of their height, it’s pretty hard to argue that they are otherwise healthy and well-adjusted. The cosmetic leg lengthening industry wants to have it both ways.

The doctor may have painted himself into an ethical corner with his claim to be treating a psychiatric illness. Unlike “height dysphoria,” body dysmorphic disorder is a recognized psychiatric condition in which a person is overwhelmingly preoccupied with some aspect of their appearance. An estimated 1%-2% of the population suffers from BDD, and BDD sufferers account for 6%-15% of all patients seeking cosmetic surgery.

BDD sufferers may be fixated on their height, their nose, their skin, or other features. “Height dysphoria” sounds suspiciously like BDD focused on height. The thing is, cosmetic surgery does not ease BDD symptoms. In fact, many experts argue that BDD should be a contraindication for cosmetic surgery because it doesn’t help and may even make BDD symptoms worse.

Paley’s website claims that he does not operate on patients with BDD. But he tells 20/20 that he’s curing a psychiatric disorder with surgery. 20/20 should have challenged him to explain how “height dysphoria” differs from BDD. If his patients are as distraught as he says they are, I have a hard time believing that he’s screening out BDD cases.

Note: I tended to agree (and disagree) with the writer on her point that Dr. Paley is being kind of innacurate (whether in intentionally or unintentionally) in labeling his clients real mental condition. He does have something to be gained in having more clients and getting a bigger practice but that does not take away from the fact that his intentions can still be good and that through his work, he makes people far happier with their height and their lives after going through with his surgery. It appears that the main differences between how Dr. Paley defines say dissastifaction with short stature and how many therapists/ psychiatrist define dissatifaction with short stature comes down to whether the dissatisfaction translated beyond just height but into the overall quality of ones life. 

Beyerstein points out that Paley’s term is not medically recognized but is just another say that a person is dissatisfied with their height. She states that “”Dissatisfaction with one’s appearance is not an illness. Supposedly, “short stature dysphoria” applies to people who are consistently unhappy about their height, but happy and well-adjustedin other areas of their lives.””

“”Unlike “height dysphoria,” body dysmorphic disorder is a recognized psychiatric condition in which a person is overwhelmingly preoccupied with some aspect of their appearance. An estimated 1%-2% of the population suffers from BDD”” – I would also like to point out to Beyerstein however that new psychiatric terms are being coined and added every year. It seems like every few months, a new type fo autism is discovered and given a name. From what I’ve known, the number of terms with each new edition of the DSM only gets bigger and bigger. I am sure given enough time, Paley’s term could be medically recognized, sort of like how Fibromyalgia is like an umbrella term for most of the small chronic pain that occurs in a person’s body where the symptoms could actually be reclassified and renamed for some other disorder.

I can make the point for myself that during my phase off intense obsession with the issue year ago, I was very focused on that area of my life but I never felt that my life quality decreased from it. I was not preoccupied with it because I was also focused on improving my health and my mind. I had many other activities I was doing. It was just something that I wanted to do and accomplish extremely badly but I never got depressed from it. I

So my final question to you then is “Do You suffer from Body Dysmorphic Disorder or Height Dysmorphia?” – Or are they pretty much the same thing??

I encountered through the Make Me Taller discussion board about this ABC Special done that mainly talked about the increased use of cosmetic surgery among men in the US however focused mainly on the part where they talked about how some men are deliberately asking doctors to break their legs to add the inches. The ABC 20/20 Special Aired originally sometime during February of this year (2012).

The article written is about a guy named Apotheosis (aged 37) from the Make Me Taller boards who went from 5′ 6″ to 6′ 0″ (OR maybe 6′ 2″!). An amazing 6 (or 8) inch increase.

However, in the video there are two men who are interviewed about their experiences with the limb lengthening surgery. My previous post was about the first guy, Akash who added 2 and a half inches to his final height to almost 5′ 2″. The other guy in the video I am not sure whether he is Apotheosis or not because what he has stated and what ABC claims are 2 inches off. Dr. Dror Paley is mentioned for his practices and his quick choice to implement the newest technologies in the science of limb lengthening, which I personally have a lot of respect for.

In the video, the guy stated that he had the initial surgery that went from 5′ 6″ to 5′ 9″, a 3 inch increase. Then the video reveals that the guy in the video went back in for a 2nd surgery for more height, and was going to be around 6′ 2″ by the end. That is an 8 inch increase, not a 6 inch increase!

So Either ABC reported it wrong, the guy was lying about how much more height he as going to add, or there was something lost in the communication, assuming the guy in the video is Apotheosis.

I tried recording the video and uploading the file but the file was too big for the server to take so you will have to go to the ABC website to view it. The beginning of the video mainly talks about altering the face but the part where they talk about altering height begins around the 3:04 mark up to the end at 6:46. You can find the ABC 20/20 Special Video by clicking HERE.

I originally found the discussion about the issue from this thread HERE on MakeMeTaller.org